ÃÛÑ¿´«Ã½

We cannot build our way out of the prisons crisis - that is the stark message from Justice Secretary Shabana Mahmood.

Today's Nick Robinson visits HMP Stocken - a Category C men’s prison in Rutland – where major companies like Toyota and DHL give inmates new skills for when they're released.

He also talks to the Justice Secretary Shabana Mahmood, who says even with plans to create 14,000 more prison places in England and Wales, that jails will still be full in three years.

Listen to Today on ÃÛÑ¿´«Ã½ Radio 4 and ÃÛÑ¿´«Ã½ Sounds: 6-9am weekdays and 7-9am on Saturdays.