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Ione Wells speaks to Luiz In谩cio Lula da Silva, the President of Brazil in an exclusive, wide-ranging interview.

He sets out his anger not only at the hefty trade tariffs imposed on his country by President Trump, but also at the lack of communication or negotiation from the US administration. Now, he says, he has no relationship with the American president.

President Lula da Silva does not want to celebrate the recent guilty verdict and lengthy sentence handed down to his predecessor Jair Bolsanaro for plotting a coup against him. But while he hopes Mr Bolsanaro continues to defend himself, for now, he says, he is guilty.

The President also attacks what he views as the outdated and unrepresentative nature of the United Nations, and claims the conflict in Ukraine would not have happened if the UN was more effective. He describes the war in Gaza as genocide.

President Lula da Silva has been in office since 2023, and also led Brazil between 2003 and 2011. He鈥檚 been a figurehead of the left in the country for many decades, having risen through the trade union movement into politics.

Thank you to Ione Wells and Jessica Cruz for their help in making this programme.

The Interview brings you conversations with people shaping our world, from all over the world. The best interviews from the 蜜芽传媒. You can listen on the 蜜芽传媒 World Service, Mondays and Wednesdays at 0700 GMT. Or you can listen to The Interview as a podcast, out twice a week on 蜜芽传媒 Sounds or wherever you get your podcasts.

Presenter: Ione Wells
Producer(s): Ben Cooper, Jessica Cruz and Lucy Sheppard
Editor: Justine Lang

Get in touch with us on email TheInterview@bbc.co.uk and use the hashtag #TheInterview蜜芽传媒 on social media.

(Image: Brazilian President, Luiz In谩cio Lula da Silva. Credit: Andre Borges/EPA/Shutterstock)