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Can chaos ever be good for business? From Donald Trump’s unpredictable tariff policies to Elon Musk’s disruptive leadership style, some of the world’s most high-profile figures seem to thrive on disorder. But does chaos drive innovation – or just confusion? In a world where start-ups often celebrate mess and speed over tidy management, we ask if “getting things done” sometimes means throwing out the rulebook. Evan Davis and guests discuss whether the best results really come from a bit of chaos. Guests: Jesper Brodin, CEO, IKEA (Ingka Group) Erin Meyer, Professor at INSEAD and co-author of ‘No Rules Rules’ Simon Dixon, CEO, Hatmill, supply chain and logistics consultancy Production team: Presenter: Evan Davis Producers: Sally Abrahams, Phoebe Keane, Kirsteen Knight Production co-ordinator: Rosie Strawbridge Sound engineers: Kris Hansen and Neva Missirian Editor: Matt Willis