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The line between what’s real and what’s virtual is blurrier than ever. How does the fusion of these two worlds change the way we think? Bridget Kendall is joined by three guests who live close to the border between the physical and the intangible. Celebrated British ceramicist Edmund de Waal is fascinated by the tactile experience of hand-sculpting pots, but also the virtual spaces his creations leave inside them; Israeli digital innovator Eyal Gever uses 3D imaging software to create stunning virtual simulations of dramatic catastrophes; and American Professor Robert Kaplan explores a paradox at the heart mathematics: numbers which can be both real and virtual at the same time. Illustration by Emily Kasriel: the blurred line between the real and the virtual.