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In the early hours of June 14th a fire engulfed Grenfell Tower, a residential tower block in West London. A large number of people died and in the aftermath residents, the wider public, politicians and celebrities all expressed frustration that a tragedy like this one was able to happen in 21st Century Britain. Some people were also sceptical at the numbers of fatalities being reported by the police – and then the media. Were the police being too conservative in their estimates? A local resident emailed the programme asking us to look into the numbers. Tim Harford talks to Commander Stuart Cundy, who oversaw the Met police operation following the fire; to ask him why it is has been so hard to establish the death toll. (image: A man watches as smoke continues to rise from the Grenfell building Credit: Leon Neal/Getty Images)