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The
Fire Brigades' Union is calling for a 40% pay rise and have rejected
the 4% they have been offered.
As
the army and their Green Goddesses are mobilised, fears are growing
in Beds, Herts and Bucks that emergency cover may not be sufficient.
Should
this action be allowed? Do they deserve 40 per cent? What's the
answer? Have your say here.
Read
more about this story
See more comments
| NJ,
Bedford |
Monday,
10-Mar-2003 12:35:39 GMT |
|
| Firefighters
should get paid more for the job they do. After all the stories
I hear about assylum seekers and immigrants getting given so
much money, spending it on drinks in clubs instead of food,
then why can't the government afford to pay the firefighters
more? After all isn't it taxpayers money that pays their wages!
I know who I would prefer my money to go to and it's not the
free-riders that do no good for anyone!!40% a bit optimistic
but never-the-less a pay rise is needed! |
| Louisa
Sibly, Dunstable |
Wednesday,
05-Mar-2003 12:07:47 GMT |
|
| where
are all the pictures of sweaty naked good looking firemen? |
| cas,
luton |
Saturday,
08-Mar-2003 21:59:49 GMT |
|
| how
many people would run into a burning house to save another persons
life,with the wages that these "heroes" are on,not many! if
the government can give themselves pay rises for doing sod all,surely
we can afford to reward the right people! |
| David
Morelli, Watford |
Sunday,
02-Mar-2003 17:46:47 GMT |
|
| It
is about time that everyone realised how much good and courageous
work the firefighters do.They should be paid their worth!They
must be paid at least 26K |
| aaron
, bolton |
Friday
28 February, 2003 |
|
| what
are the negative and positive aspects of being a fire fighter
and what is the current status of the strike |
| Cheryl
Dover, Luton |
Thursday,
27-Feb-2003 09:09:18 GMT |
|
| I
say that they are wrong to take futher strikes as most of them
have second jobs. What happened to doing good is it's own reward?
Do they even care about human lives? It does not seem so as
they keep striking. When they strike the army has to take over
and they have only the basics where as the fire fighters have
more modern equipment. The army is doing a very good job the
fire fighters job. |
| Lee
, Peterborough |
Tuesday
25
February 2003 |
|
| I
think the government is to blame for this dispute. If they did
not spend so much on asylum seekings and building things such
as the millenium dome then they would have the money to give
all public sector workers a pay rise. What has happened to britain
since they came in power? And what evidence is there that gives
them the right to have a fourty percent pay rise? I blame the
government!! |
| Janey,
Hitchin, Herts |
Saturday
22
February, 2003 |
|
| Why
should the firefighters strike?????? Why should they deserve
greater pay? Derry Irvine, Derry Irvine, Derry Irvine. And the
Ministers of the Cabinet who are excused the £5 charge for entering
London Congestion zones. Unlike firefighters, nurses and other
underpaid employees of the state who cannot afford rents/mortgages
in the Capital, who work shifts and who, therefore, need their
cars in order to work unsocial hours when our appalling public
'transport' system isn't operative. This country is under the
rule of a government which doesn't seem to realise who elected
them. Firefighters should, perhaps, accept their 40% pay rise
in increments but they deserve to earn a living wage in view
of the service they give to the inhabitants of this country,
under very difficult, gruelling and often extremely dangerous
circumstances. Day after day after day. Do we really begrudge
them their 'quiet' times when they are waiting for their next
call to a burning house or a Road Traffic Accident? I don't
think so. |
| peter,
Hemel Hempstead |
Friday
21
February, 2003 |
|
| Alison
Cardiff It appears that you work in a Hospital on low pay. WHY??
The Governments have taken the mick for years. Knowing that
you wont strike for better pay, heres a peanut now go away.
I believe this is wrong as you should be well paid. Nigel Aylesbury
Firefighters to train as Nurses, not a bad idea, but due to
MODERNISATION they have their full quota of Nurses and other
staff. After all you cant over employ, as there wont be any
money left in the budget for the pay rises of the managers who
do absolute JACK ---T except instigate the cuts. As for putting
out the toast, you`d be suprised at the amount of kitchen fires
caused by toast, when you are doing the toast, make sure you
dont need us, as if the station has been closed by the Bain
report, you can then complain, oops sorry you wont as you appear
to be a Blairite. |
| John,
UK |
Friday
21
February, 2003 |
|
| I
have it from a very good source that Paramedics pay will rise
quite considerably fairly soon. We all know that the NHS has
been offered a 10% rise over 2 or 3 years, (I can't quite remember
which). But what was not said that this is an average of 10%.
with lower paid essential staff getting a larger percentage.
I have been told that Paramedics pay will rise to approx £27K,
quite a considerable rise about 50%. Will the Government step
in and say the Country cannot afford it because it ? |
| Nigel,
Aylesbury |
Thursday
20
February, 2003 |
|
|
Take note Firefighters ! of exactly what Alison from Cardiff
has written !! She is absolutely spot on , right to the point.
The Unison leader, name escapes me !? ( could be a red dinosaur
?!) does not want The Agenda for Change in the NHS to continue
until " our brothers and sisters in the Fire Service " have
had their dispute settled. The person in charge of Health at
Unison, Karen Jennings has mentioned that Health Staff should
not be too optimistic about getting a large increase in pay,
certainly nowhere near the doctors want (30%). Unions like the
Government have no idea what their members/constituents actually
want and need !! Unison bosses are quite prepared to fight for
another Unions "Greedy" 40% request but not for the low paid
workers in our National Health Service who are unwilling/unable
to strike for an amount lot less than 40%. Modernisation is
essential for all public services to serve the public the best
they possibly can. If there are job losses in the Fire Service
they could always train as nurses ! the NHS has a reputed shortage.
Wouldn't be able to sit down for a lot of the shift but at least
they could sort out the burning toast !! |
| Barbara,
Hemel Hempstead |
Thursday
20
February, 2003 |
|
| In
response to what Alison has said The firefighters of this country
have woken up big time to what is going on by looking at what
has happend to other workplaces and that includes you in the
NHS. DO YOU REALLY THINK THEY WOULD ARGUE OVER SOMETHING THAT
IS NOT WORKING ALREADY ? Ministers modernisation agenga want
to use the Bain report which states 4,500 firefighters jobs
to be axed (It does not matter which way you look at it ) over
the next 4 years with hundreds of control staff this equates
to the closure of about 150 fire stations or 3 in each fire
brigade area`s across the country, who knows were this may happen
? And lets not forget this could well happen if as you put it
we dont wake up. So when you look to the future maybe you will
say they were right to fight for their jobs? |
| Alison,
Cardiff |
Thursday
20
February, 2003 |
|
| A
number of public sector workers would love a 40% increase in
pay but should we all withdraw our services to get it? Some
professsional groups are prevented from striking and therefore
do not have the clout that the Fire fighters think that they
have. Some of us have trained for 3 and 4 years to get professional
qualifications to work within the public sector. Our skills
are required for the whole of our working day and not just at
times when we are called out. We earn substantially less than
the Firefighters do at present and will be well out of range
if their basic salary becomes £30,000 per year. As for modernisation
- come and work in the NHS! Modernisation has meant that we
have opportunities to progress now that we did not have before.
It has also meant that some people do not do the job that they
once did and many who have taken early retirement have not been
replaced.But we live in a society where things can't stay the
same. Limited income for services means tough decisions, wake
up to it! I feel that the firefighters have been led up the
garden path by their union. No union in it's right mind bring
out their members for a 40% increase. Andy Gilcrist has proved
that he does not have the ability to negotiate his way out of
a paper bag let alone take on the government and expect to win.
Settle quietly now before you lose even more public support.
|
| Peter,
Hemel Hempstead |
Tuesday
18 February, 2003 |
|
| Paul
MK If you had read some of the previous entries on this site,
the answer is already there. Firefighters have not picketed
obstructively as you put it. As for Public Safety Equipment,
yes that is its purpose, however a lot of brigade appliances
dont belong to the Public, they are privately owned by lease
companies. Whilst the Firefighters are on strike, heres the
appliances, take them. When there is a major incident that the
Firefighters have agreed to attend, where will the appliances
be and will they still work. In Bedford, asylum seekers burnt
down a £100m purpose built centre, and now fish eyes Cook has
the cheek to ask for at least £800m for them. It has also cost
£100m to pay the Military during the strike dates |
| Paul
, MK |
Monday
17
February, 2003 |
|
| At
school I was always told to read the question carefully. This
thread is meant to be about whether the firefighters' action
should be allowed and whether the firefighters should receive
40%So, yes let them strike but no, don't let them picket obstructively
and deny access to what is the public's safety equipment. And
no, I think they don't deserve a 40% increase across the board.
By all means some might say we "waste" money on the military
build up in the Middle East, whereas others may have the view
that money is "wasted" on dealing with illegal immigrants/ asylum
seekers. That kind of debate on Govt priorities might have merit
but could run and run.... We all assume MP's have their noses
in the trough too much of the time so no arguments there :) |
| lisa
smith, luton |
Saturday
15 February, 2003 |
|
| i
think that the committee should give the fire fighters more
money cause they are risking their lifes they could die they
got my support we even give them loads of wood to keep warm. |
| roz
mercer, Bedford |
Friday
14 February, 2003 |
|
| Lets
face it in a decent society firemen, nurses, doctors and others
on which we so depend would all be paid better but we have all
our priorities wrong and sadly it will never happen. How curious
that we tolerate the decadence and extreme wealth of many high
ranking officials, MPs, members of the Royal Family, film stars,
sportmen and pop singers but we never seem to have any money
for the key workers. Where do our taxes go? They are high enough
if you consider the huge amount of increases in indirect taxation
that Gordon Brown has had off all of us during the last six
years. If we have 2 billion to pay for a senseless war against
Irag, then surely we have gone quite mad! Ironically that same
war will drive taxes up even further so I doubt if the firemen
will get what they really deserve. |
| Matt,
Hertfordshire |
Friday
14 February, 2003 |
|
| Police,
firefighters, hospital staff, etc all should have a high pay
rate because they can all help save lives. |
| Brain
Lentz, Hatfield |
Friday
14 February, 2003 |
|
| The
FireFighters deserve the pay rise in my opinion. I have in my
time worn a Khaki and a Blue Uniform but would not relish doing
a Fireman's job. Those that criticise are, I suspect, people
who have never served anyone but themselves. Why is it the Politicians
deserve higher pay and HUGE Pensions, yet these same people
can COST lives in a war the majority of the public do NOT want,
yet FireFighters do not, who save lives ? Next time YOU are
trapped in a car, upside down because you were a bad driver/reckless/had
one too many something's.. just thank YOUR lucky stars there
are people out there willing to pull your hide out of your vehicle,
no matter how smashed up and repulsive you now look and now
matter that your vehicle may be about to catch light... or topple
over ...or fall off some embankment... and you know what, you
will THEN learn what a FIREfighter does, oh, I forgot, where
was Tony Blair and his cronies when YOU or your children were
bleeding in that car ??? You think Lord Irvene deservede to
get a Pay rise almost as big as the entire salary of a fireman...
give it a rest ! When your pension is worth squat due to increased
taxation and overbearance of Regulation (FRS17 for one) and
the Politicians swan off on YOUR taxes to a life of leisure,
what the hell do you think the Firemen will live on..? A pay
Increase from what base ? Forget the percentage, look at the
wage people, what do YOU earn before tax and how many lives
do YOU save doing it ? |
| Peter,
Hemel Hempstead |
Thursday,
13 February, 2003 |
|
| Rob
Saudi Thank him well as some of the ground troops have had to
buy their own boots, because they have not got any. The SA 80
is liable to fail as it did 12 years ago, the Artillary they
aren`t sure obout. All this for 3.2%, However if they cut your
pay rise in line with modernisation that would pay for the necessary
equipment and the MP`s payrise. Duncan Thank you for yor support
and understanding, I agree with you, as this is the 1st time
since the dispute started that the Government has been at the
talks, Not bad for 4 months, could be that the TUC shook them.
Jo Bedford Thank you. Phil Aylesbury Another Rattlesnake. Cheers,
wait till you need our help, oops the service has been modernised
and the station has been closed. Whilst we are all getting the
sack, you had better add the police as they have to get up to
1000 troops to assist them after all they were modernised weren`t
they, sorry cut. The management skills of the MP`s is C--P so
sack them as well. Mick Luton Read the earlier entries about
recruitment, as thousands are due to leave, and not very many
applicants make the grade. If its that good why dont you give
it a try? Nigel Aylesbury Low pay should be eradicated across
the board in all walks of life, not just the Fire Service. Some
of The nursing service have been offered 15% over 3 years. Paul
MK You have not said much about about the MP`s 40% payrise last
year and 2.75% this year, MY TAXES, they spent that freely.
Dont you think it strange that Brown said there was no more
money in the kitty, yet he has found an enormous amount to fund
the payrises and the Iraqi War Effort. |
| Paul,
Milton Keynes |
Wednesday
12
February, 2003 |
|
|
Nobody denies that at times, firefighters risk their personal
safety for the safety of others but it seems to me that Mr Gilchrist
is leading nothing more than a political action. Don't blame
the firefighters for supporting a leadership that promises to
do everything to get them 40% more! It is sad that so many in
the so-called "Public Service" have no idea of the realities
of business. Too often they appear to believe that there is
some bottomless pit of Government Cash (ie MY TAXES!)They need
to understand that someone, somewhere, has to CREATE the wealth
for them to spend so freely. 40%? We would all like that Mr
Gilchrist but if my company paid that level of increase then
there would be massive redundancies to fund it. Get real you
guys. |
| Nigel,
Aylesbury |
Tuesday
11
February, 2003 |
|
| There
is a very strong possibility that the NHS will have to wait
a very long time for a pay settlement, anywhere near the 11%,
that our "ever so slightly greedy "Skilled Manual Firefighters"
were offered. To make matters worse !?, a certain Mr Gilchrist
wishes to eradicate low pay in the Fire Service ! What low pay
pays £21000 after 5 years without an academic background ? Several
ex Forces have joined the Fire Service, possibly because its
much easier money, less hours and a much safer lifestyle ! I
don't blame them one bit ! I am also ex Forces(24 years). Just
3 more points/questions ! Why are there several applicants for
every vacancy in the Fire Service ??? Sort your dispute out
soon else you will be in danger of losing the Rank and File
support of the Public Service Unions sooner than you realise.
NB: Firefighters in the big cities who get called out to serious
incidents on a regular basis deserve a decent payrise !!! |
| Mick
Luton |
Tuesday
11
February, 2003 |
|
| With
new applications to the fire service being dramatically over-subscribed,
the law of supply and demand suggests that the fire service
is a very attractive employment at the current pay levels. I
believe there is a strong case for issuing the strikers an ultimatum
- get back to work or collect your cards! |
| Clive,
UK |
Tuesday
11
February, 2003 |
|
| Wrong
again Nigel, The FBU Website actually states Firefighter (aged
18) £16,941 |
| Nigel,
Luton |
Monday
10 February, 2003 |
|
| Sam,
MK: FBU website pay scales for last year - 1st 6 months £17208.
Not many 18 year-olds will get anywhere near this. Presumably
this is paid while at Fire Service College, so it could also
be said that no other students get anywhere near this. The potential
is there for a 22 year-old to get £21531 following less than
5 years of work. I can name several qualified profesionals living
IN London who don't get this after working for 25 years. These
are people who work 10 hours per day, get weekends off if they
are lucky and have 25 days leave per year, usually taken during
slack periods. They also have to work until they are 65. The
Fire Service pay and conditions look great to me. |
| Phil,
Aylesbury |
Monday
10 February, 2003 |
|
| All
striking firefighters should be fired stright away. They should
not get any pension rights at all, never, ever. They would like
to have more money? so would like I!!!! And I am not prepared
to give them any more of my hard earned taxes... In any case
military deserves more, and please..I am not from military.
I just hate to see our taxes going to social security scums
and so called "poor needy firefighters". |
| Jo,
Bedford |
Saturday
8 February, 2003 |
|
| 30k
for all the fire, police, and ambulance, its a small price to
pay for professionals who dedicate themselves to sevice, if
you were at potters bar/ hatfield, in a serious car crash you
would want all three!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! healthy motivated and
working as part of a team!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! perhaps all three
unions should get together |
| Duncan
Borrington-Chance, Flitwick |
Friday
7 February, 2003 |
|
| I'm
only 12 but I think fire fighters are under paid. They shouldn't
go on strike BUT I think they deserve more pay. If they keep
going on strike I think that people will stop supporting them
as they're going to far! Just keep talking it over |
| Rob,
Saudi |
Friday
7 February, 2003 |
|
| Thanks
Mr. Blair for my 3.2% pay rise, I'll carry on doing the job
I joined up to do and that I knew all the details about before
joining. I won't moan or strike. Oh that's right, I can't!!
|
| Che,
Stevenage |
Friday
7 February, 2003 |
|
| Any
company that gives its staff a pay increase also has to up not
only up its pension contributions but its NI contributions etc,
these are not limited to just the Fire Service but apply to
every single company and public sector employer. Also the Fire
Service is not the only one who offers final salary pensions
in the public sector or private sector. You will find that the
civil service, police, probation officers etc, and of course
MPs all are part of these schemes. The main reason private employers
are failing to offer these types of scheme to their new employees
is two fold, the first is the new accounting rules and taxation
of pension funds that were brought in recently, and the second
is the downturn in the stockmarket with their resulting weaker
forecasts for the investments which many pension funds are based
on. These do not affect say the fire service pension scheme
because as i have said before contributions paid into it were
treated as income by Local Authorities and spent, therefore
not treated as they should have - pension contributions that
should be used for investment therefore restricting the employers
contribution in the future to the reasonable amount any employer
contributes to their employees pension schemes. This is why
Local authorities pay a large employers contribution to the
Firefighters pension scheme. There is a parallel to this story
and that parallel is the Maxwell pension scandal - Maxwell used
his employees pension fund to invest (spend) in dubious deals
that did not see a return thus when it came to paying his pensions
there was not enough money in the pot and the pensioners were
left high and dry. The problem with Local Authorities is they
do not plan for the long term future - the decisions to use
pension contributions as income helps them at the time when
a scheme is in its infancy however it stores up problems for
the future and that is what has happened. Its likely that the
councillors etc that made these decisions in the past are long
gone. I would suggest that it is these people that should be
hauled over the coals not the firefighters for being within
the pension scheme. Also when maufacturers of aerial plant specify
having them stripped and rebuilt after 15 years you are foolhardy
to ignore it. Thus Fire Services would'nt use it until it had
this performed. I am well aware of the function and abilities
of the REME but as they are not the manufacturers they cannot
say with any great conviction whether it is or isnt safe to
use, that is why they are stripped to each individual component
by the manufacturers and then reassembled with damaged components
being replaced at this interval. Are you suggesting that the
REME did this? I would suggest that they had more important
things to do like changing air filters on tanks, Changing helicopter
rotor blades and showing soldiers that it is their cleaning
routine that jams rifles not sand. |
| Sam,
Milton Keynes |
Thursday
6
February, 2003 |
|
| NIGEL:
- I have just read your reply to me, you have been misinformed.
The Firefighters are claiming a rise of about 40%, the current
starting salary for a firefighter is £16,941, a 40% rise would
bring the starting salary up to the region of 23kish. The 30k
figure is what can be earnt in the 5th year of service subject
to qualification. Also just for clarity, there are currently
yearly incremental pay rises. If you need any further accurate
information on the subject I would be happy to help. BILL in
Stevenage, Thank you for your supportive comments, it is refreshing
for Firefighters and their families to hear. Thanks again. |
| Nigel,
Luton |
Wednesday
5 February, 2003 |
|
| Before
Peter jumps on me, retiring on the wrong side of the deadline
would have an effect of £6k on the annual pension. |
| Nigel,
Luton |
Wednesday
5 February, 2003 |
|
| Che:
Sorry, I missed one of your responses, I've not been deliberately
ignoring it. As I've said, cutting the Fire Service is a definite
error. To suggest this at the same time as proposing building
more houses (which is essential now, never mind over 20 years)
shows a major error in 2 Jags' judgement. If the dispute were
about cuts and was undertaken without strike action, support
for the firefighters would be unanimous and would be carried
through - local MPs and therefore government can't override
the wishes of the electorate if they want to stay in power.
You've got the public's backs up with the wage claim, though,
and ill-considered actions like the one involving the aerial
platform have made matters worse. The issue about pay isn't
just about a 40% claim - with Employers' pension contributions
simple maths says that the wage bill will be 50%. Hidden away
are other issues that will raise the cost substantially more.
An example is Peter of Hemel. In 18 ! months, he will retire.
With what he has build up in his pension fund, his pension shouldn't
be much more than 2/3 of his current salary. If, for the sake
of argument, you won 40%, Peter would still expect to retire
on 2/3 of his FINAL salary even though his overall contributions
would probably be in the order of £60k short (40% of 20 years
at 33% of a £23k salary). (I've presumed he has reached Leading
Firefighter). So, in Peter's case, its not just a case of an
extra £9k per year (did I really say "just?"), but an extra
£60k that has to appear from nowhere. This funding won't be
made up until we get close to the end of the next generation
of firefighters. Obviously, I'm not privy to the discussions
at the various meetings, but must wonder whether somebody has
suggested how to get round this. Will the firefighters accept
significantly less than 2/3 of final salary or are Council Tax
bills going to go through the roof? What about the retired firefighters,
especially t! hose who have recently retired? Retiring a day
short of a deadline must be expected to cause resentment when
about £10k per year is at stake. The additional costs involved
in the use of Armed Forces cover during strikes is probably
little more than the savings from not paying your wages as most
of it would have been spent anyway (merely totalled up and assigned
against fire strike as opposed to training) or during the initial
set up (no longer a bargaining issue as it has already been
spent). Hindsight is wonderful. If you'd asked five years ago
for a pay increase of 4% over the cost of living each year for
the next five years, you would have been more likely to have
received it, certainly with much less animosity. If you try
a similar deal now, even if you managed to swing it, it would
appear as if you had backed down. You truly have my sympathy,
even if not my support, because the FBU overreached to the extent
that the government has been obliged to get it's pound of! flesh.
I can't see there being any winners in this dispute and, regrettably,
if the strikes continue, the victims won't even be among the
antagonists. |
| Nigel,
Luton |
Wednesday
5 February, 2003 |
|
| Peter,
Hemel: With regard to your last writings, I have operated aerial
platforms for over 20 years. I presume the platforms you have
operated have all been lorry-mounts. Regardless of manufacturer,
model or capacity, these are all considered a single type. I
have operated lorry-mounts, van-mounts and trailer-mounts (these
are classified as different types as they have different jacking/stabilising
systems) as well as various mobile platforms (i.e. without jacks)
and have tickets for all except the tracked variations. As the
lorry-mounts are supposed to be operated with the wheels clear
of the ground, the only limitation on ground slope is the point
where the vehicle slides. If you aren't operating with the body
level (and the jacks down), then you aren't operating it correctly
or safely. I don't know where you get the idea of a "builder's
half day" to set up, it takes less than 10 minutes (without
assistance). Perhaps you are referring to the rogue "cowboy"
builders who try to give the impression that they working hard
to justify their high prices and offset their shoddy workmanship.
I understand that a lot of these cowboys are builders only part
time and have another full-time job..... You accuse me of not
replying to your earlier questions - to put the record straight,
it was I who asked the questions and was awaiting an answer
from you. Don't bother replying now, your responses to everybody
seem to comprise of the same words in different sequences. |
| Peter,
Hemel Hempstead |
Wednesday
5 February, 2003 |
|
| H
Bedford I was on the last strike all those years ago, yes it
was hard but I found a lot of part time work, Yes I personally
would have prefered an all out strike, and here`s the equipment,
it`s not mine or yours it belongs in most cases to private companies,
. when its all over and the Fireservice has been destroyed,
and the equipment is not serviceable, you will have no service
then, complain to Prescott. 1 item of interest, 25yrs ago Labour
were in power, they lost that election and got nowhere for 18yrs,
now they are in power, seems like they are out to make amends
and crush all public service unions, the workers of this Country
deserve better than this bunch of imbeciles at parliament. |
| Peter,
Hemel Hempstead |
Wednesday
5 February, 2003 |
|
| Nigel
You cant get qualified pay until you are at least 22yrs old,
as you cant join the Fire Service unless you are a minimum of
18yrs old. Your second comment an FBU rep could answer that,
but i would think they dont take their pay either, You wont
split the union either |
| H.
Bedford |
Wednesday
5 February, 2003 |
|
| When
the miners went on strike, they stayed on strike - none of this
"on off on off" rubbish. I don't doubt you deserve better pay
for what you do, but stop putting our lives at risk to get it.
I feel sorry for the army - they have to jump into action every
time you say "Strike", then you don't even have the courtesy
to give them the proper equipment needed for the job. The longer
you keep this up, the more our support for you dwindles - when
will you see that? We'd have more respect for you if you went
on a complete strike - but that would be too hard on the bank
balance wouldn't it! |
| Clive,
UK |
Wednesday
5
February, 2003 |
|
| Brilliant
move by the Deputy Prime Minister, reduce the Fire Service and
massively increase housing, (Low Cost Housing) Will this housing
be low cost high quality with domestic sprinklers and built
in hard wired smoke alarms, or of the low quality tinderbox
variety that we have seen go up in a puff of smoke so often. |
| Jim,
Herts |
Wednesday
5
February, 2003 |
|
| Yawn,
Yawn, Mark from Harpendon. A lot of us have already done it,
been there got the tee shirt, came back and joined the Fire
Service. Please read some of the previous comments on this board
regarding firefighters previously serving their Country and
you might not embarrass yourself with any more silly comments. |
| Nigel,
Luton |
Tuesday
4
February, 2003 |
|
| Che,
Stevenage: The Armed Forces are not exempt from Health and Safety
laws. Short of charging into battle (I am assured this may be
exempted), everything the Forces do is governed by H&S procedures.
The extent of involvement is such that all soldiers of staff
sergeant and above have to attend (and pass) a site safety supervisors
course. Where appropriate, all equipment must be checked per
relevant statutory regulations. Crown Immunity, while still
on the statutes, is not considered an exemption from individual
and corporate responsibilities under H&S law. With regard to
the hydraulic platform, the LOLER regulations don't specifically
require the actions you stated. A range of inspections and tests
are adequate. If you go up to the lorry-mount platforms available
from hire companies and scrape a bit of the green or yellow
paint off, you will often find red undernea! th. The REME have
all the facilities necessary to re-certify such vehicles, though
I would not be surprised if, for convenience, they took it to
a local plant hire company instead as most have their own fitters,
facilities and spares. |
| Peter
, Hemel Hempstead |
Tuesday
4
February, 2003 |
|
| Mark
If required, I would quite happily march off to fight, would
you?? I would happily put my life on the line to save you. Would
you do the same for me?? I doubt it. A lot of Firefighters are
ex Military. Ross Treat me as the Police, same pay, no strikes
yes please, it`s more than 30k, to get full qualified pay takes
4yrs. As for calling me a traitor. READ ABOVE. Nigel Aylesbury
I agree, a lot of different workers should get a decent living
wage, not the miserly amount they presently get. Yes the Fireservice
have also changed, adapted, improved, improvised and learnt
new skills, with smaller and smaller budgets. Yet to listen
to Prescott and Bain we are Fossils. We have been at ACAS since
before Christmas for talks, but the Employers send a message,
BAIN, BAIN. Hows that for discussion. Nigel Luton I won't forgive
you, as you cant answer all of the questions posed. As for your
poison statement, I personally, along with other Firefighters
dont want anyone to die at anytime. As you have been constantly
putting your foot in it, it's obvious that you are in need of
some sympathy votes to help your cause. IV'E GOT NEWS FOR YOU,
YOU GOT IT WRONG YET AGAIN, you wont learn will you.You have
tried your hardest to put down the Firefighters and downgrade
the skills. I have got 18 months left to retirement. As you
say that you are an operator, and have more skills than I do.
I am appalled at your lack of technical knowledge and ability.
How long have you been an operator and on what? I am a qualified
operator, trainer and examiner on 3 different types of aerial
appliance, soon to be a 4th. So now you are trying to kid the
Public that its easy and dont need skill. You laugh about Cambers
and Hills, I can take you to parts of London where the Hill
is 20%, and a Camber of almost 7 degree's! some Aerials need
to be levelled to get it to work, and all done quickly, not
in a builders half day. You say the jacks would do this without
any problem, which type of Aerial appliance. As an operator
you should know that if you rest a cage against a building it
could make the appliance unstable, and yes I can take the cage
from ground floor 1" from the window to the 10th floor easy.
The payloads of the Aerials in London vary between 1, 3, 4,
6, 8 Persons, I can guess that the Appliance that you are refering
to, in London takes 6. As for your insult, I am not afraid of
anything, Either 60m Aerial appliance as used in Hong Kong or
confined spaces, No problems. As for applied maths, it wont
stop an aerial appliance falling over when you get it wrong.
Next time you quote Aerials get it right, remember any numbskull
can operate in a car park and pay £80 to get their licence.
Hose, yes I agree, depending on the hose size, branch and nozzle
size, and pump pressure, it can take u! p to 3 people to hold
it down. As for trying to get one back against me, good effort.
|
| Nigel,
Luton |
Tuesday
4
February, 2003 |
|
| Peter,
Hemel Hempstead: Before you start spouting "WRONG AGAIN" yet
again, read what I have written. It's getting boring rewriting
everything because you have reading difficulties. The figure
of £30k was addressed at qualified firefighters, hence the additional
comment of being available to a 21 year old. I am well aware
that the firefighters don't get paid while on strike - I made
no suggestion that they do. The issue concerned Andy Gilchrist
and other STAFF (not members) of the FBU. While you are on strike
and getting no pay at their bidding, they are not on strike
and presumably are still being paid. I queried whether they
were giving up a proportionate amount of their pay towards your
hardship fund as a token of solidarity - or is it a case of
"I'm all right, Jack." |
| Bill
Stevenson, Stevenage |
Tuesday
4
February, 2003 |
|
| Che:
There are a lot of ignorant and/or arrogant people out there
and unfortunatly, when this dispute is over, they will still
expect you and your colleagues to come and save their worthless
backsides. |
| John.,
Just North of The Big Apple, NY, USA. |
Tuesday
4
February, 2003 |
|
| For
Barbara, Hemel Hempsted. This is the last time that I shall
play the word game with you, and I suggest that the good old
ÃÛÑ¿´«Ã½ is about ready to pull the plug too! You misquote me Barbara.
I did NOT at any time say that America is better than England.
What I did say was that i did not wish to return to England
for anything other than a visit to relatives, and that I still
love England, but that I love my home America more. You blame
the government for your real or imagined ills Barbara, and that
is the usual and convenient way for many on both sides of the
Atlantic. If your husband is so fired up to improve his lot,
then let him move on to other endeavours in other sectors. Apart
from putting out fires, what other qualifications can he offer
a prospective employer Barbara? Anyway, enough of this sparring,
we are becoming like two angry dogs facing off. I invite you
to visit my home Barbara. Go to ÃÛÑ¿´«Ã½ Kent and in Global Bagpuss
select New
Rochelle New York. There you will be able to see my
home, and the area that I live in. I wish you well, and hope
that you finally find the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. |
| steve,
leighton buzzard |
Tuesday
4
February, 2003 |
|
| like
your style mark |
| Rob,
Saudi |
Tuesady
4
February, 2003 |
|
| Che,
what absolute RUBBISH. The Armed forces are subject to the Health
& Safety at work act 1974 during peacetime as well as other
legislation such as environmental protection, just as the rest
of British Industry is. Only in times of war are we exempt if
the need arises. The fact that we have to comply with Health
& Safety often inhibits our effectiveness but it is legally
enforceable, so we get on and do it, not complaining or striking,
because we are not allowed to. |
| che,
stevenage |
Tuesday
4
February, 2003 |
|
| ross,
wellingborough all i can say to you is you are an idiot. Traitors
are not people who care about the service they may have to provide
to their communities. I certainly would like to see you call
the ex members of the forces who serve on my station and were
in the falklands, gulf, bosnia and northern ireland traitors.
Foolish idiot. |
| Mark,
Harpenden |
Tuesday
4
February, 2003 |
|
| In
the face of industrial action by members of the armed forces,
the government has announced that the Fire Service will, as
an interim measure, carry out military operations in Iraq. The
army, who have demanded a 40% pay increase on the basis that
they didn't know they would be shot at and that their job has
become rather more technical since 1945, will begin strike action
next Thursday unless a compromise pay deal can be agreed in
the meantime. It is understood that they will spend their time
standing around little bonfires, rubbing their hands together
and waving at passing vehicles who honk their horns at them.
Crack Fire Service personnel, highly trained in playing darts,
brewing tea and sliding down poles, are understood to be on
stand-by to spend months apart from their families to do someone
elses job by taking up front line operations. Using their "red
goddess" vehicles instead of tanks, they will race towards Iraqi
lines and attempt to annoy the enemy into surrendering by making
a lot of noise and spraying them with water. |
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